第四十二天

[nnozomi]

第七天 day! You know the rules. Post something you like, and/or something that was helpful for study, basically anything interesting to you and Chinese-language-related ;)

(Silly request: you know those grid logic puzzles, where you have five people, five pets, five houses etc. and you figure out which belongs to which? Do those exist in Chinese? I have a bad habit of wasting time on them when I'm stressed, and Chinese ones would at least be good reading practice...)

Mine: 吃一堑长一智, a useful (and comforting) phrase Yu-jie taught me last week, roughly "you learn something from every stumble" (?).
Also another favorite Liu Chang song (I think I've posted it before, but not here), since around this time of year, at least in the northern hemisphere, it's what we would all like to do: 再睡五分钟. 我虽然爱睡懒觉，但是绝不迟到，早上好。 remind me to come back to this when the 虽然...但是 grammar point comes up...

Comments

[grayswandir]

吃一堑长一智

Aha! I've never heard this, but I do know a song lyric with the line 跌一次长一智. I remember I always found the 长一智 part sort of confusing, even though I had an idea of what it probably meant (and since it does not appear to be a common phrase, I couldn't look it up to confirm the meaning). Good to finally know it's a variation on a different phrase! (I'm guessing the lyrics were aiming for the same meaning but with a rhyme, since 次 and 智 rhyme. Well, in Cantonese they do. And it looks like also in Mandarin?)

For another possibly useful phrase, I'll mention 明知故问, because I ran across it twice just recently (first in the HK show I was watching/translating last month, and then yesterday when presumenothing mentioned it in a comment at sid_guardian). It refers to someone intentionally asking a question that they already know the answer to. (For example, on the show I was watching, the context was a character who was winning a competition turning to ask his girlfriend, "How am I doing?" She replied with 明知故问, and then told him he was just fishing for compliments.)

[presumenothing]

明知故问 and its more-criminal friend 明知故犯 happens to be one of those 成语 that breaks neatly down into components, so why not, it's free real estate vocab acquisition XD

• 明明: obviously, as in 沈巍明明是黑袍使, no matter how much he might like to pretend otherwise. (JP: 明らかに, because I just realised I have a JP-CN option in the Mac dictionary app and this is so much more convenient than JP-EN. いまさらですが… LOL)
• 知道: know! 赵云澜知道沈巍黑袍使。
• 故意: intentionally (but see note below), as in 赵云澜故意假装他不知道沈巍黑袍使 – all the better to catch him in the act. (JP: わざと)
• 提问: to raise a question. So if ZYL were to 提问 at SW where HPS is while also knowing who he is… 明知故问!

–

Note on nuance, transcribed off dictionary because I hadn't actually thought about it before this… 故意 is a tone-neutral term and doesn't imply planning, only that it's an intentional action. Contrast with the somewhat-similar term 蓄意, which implies premeditation and is typically negative/derogatory (贬义, vs 褒义 for positive/complimentary). So you could use 故意 but not 蓄意 in e.g. joking or light-hearted contexts.

[grayswandir]

I'm glad you explained the components, actually, because I now realize I was pretty much just ignoring 故 since it didn't really make sense to me. I hear the other three characters by themselves all the time, so 明知...问 was fine, but I've only ever encountered 故 in compounds, and I feel like... none of those compounds are very similar? Like

故事 story
事故 accident
缘故 reason
故乡 hometown
故人 old friend

This character is way too versatile. XD So yeah, I've heard 故意 plenty of times, but it didn't occur to me that that was the meaning here! I think I'll have an easier time remembering it now that all four characters make sense to me.

[presumenothing]

Even Baidu's page on it is like, yeah here's 9 barely-related meanings for 故 and no real explanation as to how they came about ¯_(ツ)_/¯ LOL

And yeah, while breaking it down doesn't work for all idioms (like… alright, bit of an extreme example because I'm suddenly 脑子一片空白 and can't think of a better one, but there's even archaic structures like 不亦乐乎 where modern Chinese just simply Does Not Grammar Like That anymore) it's very helpful for learning and remembering! …though you may have to check CN-CN resources rather than CN-EN I guess.

[presumenothing]

订正：

赵云澜知道沈巍是黑袍使, oh my 天 missing word

[nnozomi]

谢谢！好清楚。 Everything is easier to understand with the aid of Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei ;) 故意 vs 蓄意 interesting! (The former does exist in Japanese and for once has the same meaning, but it's a lot more formal than わざと...).

[presumenothing]

for once has the same meaning, but it's a lot more formal

XD of course it'd be too much to ask for both the same meaning AND nuance!!!!

[trobadora]

Thank you for this breakdown!

[nnozomi]

跌一次长一智.
Another good one to know! Glad to discover 明知故问 likewise.

[presumenothing]

Texting from the office while waiting for my spreadsheet to un-死机 itself…

• …and therefore cannot verify whether it's a relevant search but logic puzzles are literally 逻辑谜题, if you want to try that.
• Which reminds me of the festive staple 猜灯谜 – a certain level of hanzi knowledge is required but it may be a conveniently fun intersection of educational/puzzles/absolutely awful puns.
• “大家都知道多睡十分钟有多幸福，但都做不到早睡十分钟。” – Zhou Shen being too real on Offer S3
• Hilariously (and I had to jog my memory via Baidu for this because I haven't heard it in a while) the versions of that phrase I know is yet a different one from both of yours: 经一事长一智… 长 so many variations more like. And for what??
• I feel like the regulars here have all been there already LOL but the meta post on episode 24 over at sid_guardian, aka more of my usual rambling but with gifs. Because Shen Wei.

[trobadora]

Texting from the office while waiting for my spreadsheet to un-死机 itself…

And thanks to this I have now learned 死机! Which is simple and transparent enough that I'll probably even be able to remember! :D

[presumenothing]

In a similar vein (though I should add that both are colloquial terms and I don't actually know what the proper ones would be) there is 死火 for when your car goes kaput/stalls, which makes sense given engines are kinda, y'know, 火-y.

Basically for all the cultural taboo about death the word itself pops up… surprisingly more often than you might expect? XD

[trobadora]

there is 死火 for when your car goes kaput/stalls, which makes sense given engines are kinda, y'know, 火-y.

Hee! Yeah, it does make sense. Seriously, this is the thing I like best about Chinese, all the transparent word formation. ♥

Basically for all the cultural taboo about death the word itself pops up… surprisingly more often than you might expect? XD

That was my impression! Funny how that goes. *g*

[presumenothing]

Because it happened to cross my dashboard, on the matter of handwriting – elberlight has extremely neat literature posts like these! With translations included… and albeit in traditional but hey, I'm a fan of mixing things up XD

[nnozomi]

谢谢你很多有用的链接！我试试看。经一事长一智。。。also for elberlight's pretty handwriting posts!

Basically for all the cultural taboo about death the word itself pops up… surprisingly more often than you might expect? XD
An exchange someone quoted from Liu Chang's Weibo that stuck in my head (forgot the English source, sorry):
刘畅：(wearing a cardigan with only the top button fastened)
一个粉丝：哥, that button, can it be unbuttoned?
刘畅：当然能，又不是钉死的!

[yaaurens]

That song made me laugh! I definitely know the feeling, ha. (I was also surprised by how much of it I understood as it went along; hurrah for nice slow songs with the lyrics written on screen!)

At some point I need to dig out my Andy Lau CDs which may or may not be bootlegs from SF Chinatown shhhh, but I still had 冰雨 on my hard drive, and was again surprised to realize I was recognizing phrases! Not entire sentences yet, but definitely catching some of the meaning without looking everything up. Please enjoy a live performance involving a soggy Andy!

[grayswandir]

I still had 冰雨 on my hard drive

I love this song! <3 I haven't actually listened to much of Andy Lau's Mandarin music (yet), but this one comes up in live performances a lot and I always love hearing it.

a live performance involving a soggy Andy

Hah, I knew which performance you were talking about before I clicked on it. :DDD In fact I think the whole concert recording this video comes from is probably my favorite of his live shows that I've seen, and the rain is definitely a highlight! There's a copy with clearer video here, if you want a slightly more HD view of his sogginess. XD

[yaaurens]

Yesssss thank you!

For obvious reasons I've listened to more of his Mandarin music, but definitely have some of his Cantonese songs as well! Maybe some day I'll get to a point where I can understand... both? (LBR, just being able to understand one will be quite an effort, ha.)

[grayswandir]

LBR, just being able to understand one will be quite an effort, ha.

For real. XD Though I'm also definitely hoping "maybe someday I'll understand both" is not impossible!

[presumenothing]

If you haven't already come across it, the existence of the phrase "落汤鸡" may entertain you XD because obviously sodden people are like chickens fallen into hot water. Of course.

[yaaurens]

I had not come across that phrase before, but now I'm going to find every excuse to use it! :-D

[grayswandir]

That is a great image. XD

[nnozomi]

To combine idioms, "mad as a 落汤鸡," clearly ;)

[trobadora]

LOL, that is a delightful phrase! :D

[nnozomi]

(I was also surprised by how much of it I understood as it went along; hurrah for nice slow songs with the lyrics written on screen!)
Yes! It's surprisingly clear, and the 我以为是伦敦时间 line cracks me up. And 冰雨 likewise, that's lovely.