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guardian_learning（抱歉迟到了，我有几个交货期...)
以后，after a given time, hereafter
https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/After_a_specific_time_with_%22yihou%22
Guardian:
所以以后，我希望你能注意安全 (Shen Wei: So hereafter, I hope you will be able to take care. To which Zhao Yunlan responds with 谢谢关心, thank you for your concern, lol.)
你以后就不用在害怕了 (Zhang Ruonan to Wang Yike: you won't need to be frightened any more, *sniff*)
那好，从今天以后我的名字就叫做沈...巍。(Okay, from today on the name I am called will be Shen...Wei.)
My practice:
你能不能快点，我三点以后一定要再出去。
下周以后，我打算每天都弹钢琴。（真的吗呀）
(Oh yeah, I asked 瑜姐 about 我在上海工作 vs 我住在上海。 Her first reaction was the typical native-speaker "Huh? Oh yeah, I guess it does work that way. 很奇怪，为什么呀," but she suggested it might have to do with single-character verbs--you would say 住在 or 睡在 or 坐在, but not 吃饭在 or 工作在 and so on. Another data point?)
以后，after a given time, hereafter
https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/After_a_specific_time_with_%22yihou%22
Guardian:
所以以后，我希望你能注意安全 (Shen Wei: So hereafter, I hope you will be able to take care. To which Zhao Yunlan responds with 谢谢关心, thank you for your concern, lol.)
你以后就不用在害怕了 (Zhang Ruonan to Wang Yike: you won't need to be frightened any more, *sniff*)
那好，从今天以后我的名字就叫做沈...巍。(Okay, from today on the name I am called will be Shen...Wei.)
My practice:
你能不能快点，我三点以后一定要再出去。
下周以后，我打算每天都弹钢琴。（真的吗呀）
(Oh yeah, I asked 瑜姐 about 我在上海工作 vs 我住在上海。 Her first reaction was the typical native-speaker "Huh? Oh yeah, I guess it does work that way. 很奇怪，为什么呀," but she suggested it might have to do with single-character verbs--you would say 住在 or 睡在 or 坐在, but not 吃饭在 or 工作在 and so on. Another data point?)
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Date: 2022-02-04 06:00 am (UTC)我希望以后我会能想起来区别以次。 (I'm pretty sure that sentence makes no sense whatsoever.)
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Date: 2022-02-04 07:58 am (UTC)- Are you having trouble with reproducing the character as well, as well as recognizing it? Try practice writing them (by hand, or in the air, or both), and then test yourself (can you write it given the pinyin, or fill in a phrase like __后).
I think in general, (1) practice both recall and recognition, and frame it as a question-answer thing and (2) figure out some way to switch up the context, possibly more than once? It sounds like you might be using the context clues (which is like, 90% of the way I actually read Chinese personally xD, and also a very nice way to read), but using context clues can also become a shortcut.
- When I'm writing, I mentally chunk up 次 as two parts (the two strokes on the left, and then 欠， which is a kangxi radical), whereas 以 feels like three parts to me，the two strokes on the left as separate entities that require moving back up, and then the 人. Having the two on the left is like the er in 二次， and 以 feels like a, um, sandwich to me.
- Silly homophone stuff: the leftmost stroke of 以 looks like a chair to me -- a 椅子！And obviously only 人 can sit in chairs. ;) Whereas if you go get something once and still 欠 something, you might want to try 第二次 (i.e. my life in every grindy videogame)。
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Date: 2022-02-04 04:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-02-04 05:47 pm (UTC)Here's a...doodle...fanart? xD
It was my first time handwriting a lot of those characters (especially 酬， so, UH).
(for anyone on screenreaders or anyone who can't see the picture, it's a cat sitting in a chair with a crown, next to a person. The chair， the cat's tail, and the person are made of the bits of 以, with dialogue)
Dialogue:
Cat: 只有猫可以坐在这里。
Person: 以后我一定会报酬的！ 死猫!
Chair: 为什么我们都没有腿？
ETA: I realized belatedly the person had legs! Oh no. I am filled with great shame! If only I had an art beta! :P
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Date: 2022-02-04 06:30 pm (UTC)(Oh, and I took 我们都没有腿 as referring to "us chairs," so I didn't see a problem with it! Don't let me be your art beta. XD )
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Date: 2022-02-04 08:51 pm (UTC)I was imagining everyone in the picture! The cat didn't have legs, and I was wondering myself why the chair didn't have legs either. ;)
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Date: 2022-02-05 01:24 am (UTC)I'M SO SORRY TO SAY THIS after you went to the trouble of writing it but the chou you want here is 报仇 for revenge 报酬 is for like. Salary kinda compensation. Also it took me embarassingly long to realise why that line looked odd I just woke up
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Date: 2022-02-05 01:42 am (UTC)(I am amused by the idea of...paying a salary instead of revenge! Like, wow, that's a miscommunication. XDD)
Thank you!
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Date: 2022-02-05 03:00 am (UTC)XD
Oh you think English puns are bad? Chinese puns are worse. Way worse. The limitless potential for horrific same-sound joke mashups of everything. 谐音梗 literally translates to "homophone joke" and it haunts us all day errrrr day.
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Date: 2022-02-05 05:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-02-05 05:27 am (UTC)"I will spend my entire fortune on revenge if I need to! By throwing it in your face!"
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Date: 2022-02-05 11:13 am (UTC)I believe in Japanese 報酬 is also used for the Wages of Sin, so you may not be too far off?
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Date: 2022-02-05 06:38 pm (UTC)in Japanese 報酬 is also used for the Wages of Sin, so you may not be too far off?
Ooooh, thank you! It delights me how versatile words like "reward" are! And I think that was how I got confused -- revenge feels like payback/compensation to me, but 报仇 is literally "report hatred/enmity?" Which takes a bit of shift in my head, from the consequences to the feelings behind it.
And now I am prepared to make terrible jokes, which is of course one of the most important learning goals: “要报仇？ 多谢, 我家房租很高!". :D
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Date: 2022-02-09 11:09 am (UTC)哈哈哈 太喜欢了 :)
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Date: 2022-02-04 07:55 pm (UTC)I like your homophone ideas! The chair thing may stick now, especially with your cute comic!
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Date: 2022-02-04 09:05 pm (UTC)Reading often doesn't lead to writing for me (I wish it did!), and I get by on typing entirely on reading the selections the autocomplete suggests. :P (And when I learn a new one with the same left-hand side and a similar right hand side, it's chaos all over again...). But on the other hand, once I can write something, I can always read it. Hence why air writing and copying things out over time works for me.
Good luck! I hope the chair helps or that you find something else that works!
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Date: 2022-02-05 05:07 am (UTC)I'm finding this particularly frustrating because I know I learned both of these characters back when I was actually IN a class so my brain should have this information stored in there somewhere, it's just... not bringing it back when I need it. And yet it brings back lots of other things that are much less useful!
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Date: 2022-02-05 11:17 am (UTC)I like the advice already given here too (radicals, homophones). The only other thing that comes to mind is that in 一次 the 一 slots neatly into the gap between the 二水, you know, the top and bottom dots on the left, while if you wrote 一以 the 一 would bang into the vertical straight line on the left and not fit at all. So you can remember that 一 goes with 次 and therefore which one is that character. 不好意思很傻的～
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Date: 2022-02-05 05:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-02-04 08:21 am (UTC)我相信你以后会每天弹钢琴得！你喜欢弹什么歌?
(I just...stared at this for way too long trying to figure out if it should be 六時 instead, courtesy of Japanese. And no idea if it's the right 得.)
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Date: 2022-02-04 10:15 am (UTC)(no) (it's 的) (sorrymasen)
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Date: 2022-02-04 04:18 pm (UTC)(Also, I laughed. :D Now I'm overcompensating in the other direction - it was bound to happen.)
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Date: 2022-02-05 11:10 am (UTC)你知不知道这只有名的猫？https://twitter.com/catmotimaru 也有YouTube.可以一边练习日语一边看可爱的猫。。。
我相信你以后会每天弹钢琴得！你喜欢弹什么歌?
谢谢啊！我不太会弹，但喜欢弹吧哈（？）.
I just...stared at this for way too long trying to figure out if it should be 六時 instead, courtesy of Japanese.
oh dear, welcome to my brain ;)
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Date: 2022-02-05 06:54 pm (UTC)谢谢啊！我不太会弹，但喜欢弹吧哈
我有时候弹，但也不那么会弹！小的时候学了一点钢琴，但从来不练习。大学的时候又学了一回，但那时候功课很多，所以也没有练习那么多。 现在家里有个小钢琴，这次开始自学了。弹的时候很喜欢，但很多时候不想开始弹。 :P 学新东西每次都这样的！
(I also could never read music that well, which makes it harder!)
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Date: 2022-02-09 11:13 am (UTC)谢谢你，我初次学了“链接”！ 看着もちまる猫好放松（轻松？ how can I relax when there are too many words for relax.)
但从来不练习。...弹的时候很喜欢，但很多时候不想开始弹
你是我吗？同感同感，自己怎么这样啊。
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Date: 2022-02-09 07:26 pm (UTC)how can I relax when there are too many words for relax.
MOOD. :D I had the same problem with "Internet"...
看着もちまる猫好放松
我也有个建议! 如果想休息一会，看点安静和可爱的小动物，我很喜欢一个日本水族馆的视频。 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcoMXrQ8IwA 他们有很多视频，可以看这只小海狗长大。
自己怎么这样啊。
笑死我了， 是这样的。。。 学东西真的不容易。
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Date: 2022-02-10 12:57 am (UTC)是海游馆呢！是我的城市吧！好开心。那我会累的时候跟老公一起看一看。小海狗，可爱死了。。。
学东西真的不容易。
你说的对呀，痛感/同感。不过也是很愉快。
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Date: 2022-02-10 02:20 am (UTC)我是去年找到这些视频的。
(Also, switching to English because it's a little easier... I realized I sent you the most boring seal video from my history, unless you want to watch a teenage seal just ignoring everything! ;p Which I was into, but only because by then I was obsessed with this seal. 这个好一点，可以看他第一次在深水游泳。 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2SvailvvHQ）
痛感/同感
不过也是很愉快
:D 是啊。 痛感，但还是甘心？
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Date: 2022-02-04 10:12 am (UTC)"很奇怪，为什么呀" 哎呀怎么那么mood呢，同感 XD
That does seem to work as a general rule though! The only exception I could find from shaking down a couple dozen example sentences was 沉浸在[noun里/中] and that's not even in reference to physical locations anyway so like whatever, it's fine.
🎵因为在 一千年以后 世界早已没有我🎵
Though it is a funny coincidence that 2/3 of the Guardian lines don't have a time before 以后! General purpose 以后ing~
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Date: 2022-02-04 04:23 pm (UTC)That's a lot of the 以后s in SHL too! (I think they often say 之后 instead when it's after something specific?)
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Date: 2022-02-04 04:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-02-04 04:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-02-04 06:50 pm (UTC)自从谢家失去神像以后 (ever since the Xie family lost the statue)
So it seems 以后 works for specific times/events, too...
(The Cantonese spoken dialogue has 之后, though. XD I'm so confused.)
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Date: 2022-02-04 06:56 pm (UTC)*also confused*
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Date: 2022-02-04 06:59 pm (UTC)Right?? I never know what they're thinking!
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Date: 2022-02-05 05:02 am (UTC)以后 definitely applies for specific events too, not just present-onwards/from-now-on contexts, but I am absolutely blanking on the difference from 之后 because they're actually… pretty similar??
Consolidating off various search results and my gut feelings:
以后 does have a less time-bounded feel than 之后? So as a veeery general rule I'd go with 之后 for more immediate events, vs 以后 if the subsequent event is indeterminate-time-in-the-future-ish (possibly why it sounds right for the Guardian examples above). And culling from my poor friend Wikitionary, 之后便会有人通知你聚会的时间和地点。(trad: 之後便會有人通知你聚會的時間和地點。) would sound really odd with 以后 instead unless you're only gonna hear back sometime in the next era. (Then again, not inaccurate for most job interviews…)
And in some phrases one is definitely more common/expected than the other, e.g. 从今以后 (which I can now only hear to the tune of 你的名字我的姓氏, 勤深深 edition) over 从今之后.
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Date: 2022-02-05 11:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-02-05 11:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-02-05 02:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-02-05 11:12 am (UTC)哈哈哈 “老师，用英语为什么在这里该用the, 在那里不该？“ ”。。。到底不懂。
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Date: 2022-02-05 11:25 am (UTC)OH have I got the perfect tautological(?) response for you, which rhymes poetically to boot:
因为所以
必有道理
藏在心里
不告诉你
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Date: 2022-02-09 11:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-02-09 11:43 am (UTC)What's the point of language (aside from granting headaches to unwitting passersby) if it doesn't have Phrases Definitely Invented Specifically To Annoy People XD
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Date: 2022-02-04 04:35 pm (UTC)以後别再提他。
我们以后要小心一点。
she suggested it might have to do with single-character verbs
Oh, interesting. 睡 doesn't seem as definitely "locational" as the other ones, so maybe it really is just a matter of single-character verbs having separate rules, like the separate rules
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Date: 2022-02-05 11:05 am (UTC)你说的对呀：）
Single- versus multiple-character verbs is certainly a fairly easy principle to grasp, if nothing else!
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Date: 2022-02-04 04:48 pm (UTC)Thank you for asking, that is fascinating!
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Date: 2022-02-05 11:04 am (UTC)