第二年第二百七十天

[nnozomi]

语法
V + 得起/不起, "can/can't afford to X" (part 3)
https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Advanced_potential_complements

词汇
让, "give way" (why is it glossed like that? "make/let" seems appropriate) (pinyin in tags)
https://mandarinbean.com/new-hsk-2-word-list/

Guardian:
这个责任你负得起吗, can you (afford to) take this responsibility?
可我赌不起, but I can't afford to bet
放心，有老师在，不会让你有事的, don't worry, I'm here, I won't let anything happen to you

Me:
我等不起结果，一定要马上去。
让我看看报纸。

Comments

[trobadora]

让, "give way" (why is it glossed like that? "make/let" seems appropriate)

I think this is a separate (if related) meaning of 让?

[grayswandir]

I agree -- this is actually the usage I know better, as in 让路, 让步, 退让. I think I've also heard 让 used for yielding/conceding to someone else in a competition. (Cantonese uses different words for "make" and "let," so these all seem like different meanings to me!)

[trobadora]

Oh, good to know about the compound verbs, that makes sense!

I think generally 让 as "let" etc. is essentially an auxiliary verb, but as "yield/concede/give way" it functions as a full verb on its own.

[nnozomi]

I think generally 让 as "let" etc. is essentially an auxiliary verb, but as "yield/concede/give way" it functions as a full verb on its own.
Seems to be the case! I know it that way in the 繁体字 form as 讓, but the characters look so different I never think of them as the same thing...

[trobadora]

Whoever came up with the simplified version for that really went all out! *g*

[nnozomi]

It's definitely one of the Japanese characters I've never learned to write...

[grayswandir]

Hah, yes! I've yet to actually learn 让 (or rather, I keep relearning it and then forgetting what it is again). I did see this on Wiktionary while copy-pasting it, though, which I thought was interesting and at least explains why it ended up like that:

让: "Simplification derived from various Wu dialects, in which 上 and 讓／让 are homophonous."

[trobadora]

让: "Simplification derived from various Wu dialects, in which 上 and 讓／让 are homophonous."

Oh, that's cool to know!

[nnozomi]

让: "Simplification derived from various Wu dialects, in which 上 and 讓／让 are homophonous."
Huh! Who knew, thank you for finding that. (I wonder if anyone's written anything up on "r" vs "sh" pronunciations in Chinese--I keep hearing "r" instead of "sh" in things like 不是 and 晚上好, for instance.)

[grayswandir]

V + 得起/不起, "can/can't afford to X" (part 3)

I get so confused about 得起/不起. Most dictionaries don't even have an entry for either one, so it took me a long time to find out they could mean "can/can't afford to" (very useful when the context is about costs!)... but I still keep running across them in places where the meaning doesn't seem to be either about affording something or doing something in an upward/rising direction. Maybe someday I'll figure out what the other usages are doing. :/

[trobadora]

Most dictionaries don't even have an entry for either one

Yeah, that tripped me up too! But Wiktionary says this is the same use as in 对不起, which hopefully means I'll be able to remember it now!

[grayswandir]

But Wiktionary says this is the same use as in 对不起

Oh no, this just confuses me more. XD I would have expected 对不起 to be more directional, like "I can't (bear to/am not worthy to) lift up (my head to) face you," rather than "I can't afford to face you." I just don't see where "affording" comes into it. Maybe some connection between "affording" and "worth," where because you've done something wrong, you lack the personal worth/value to "afford" to look at someone? Even if so, it seems so different from how "afford" is used in English that I feel like there's got to be some other translation that would clarify what it means better...

Kind of digressing here, but the particular usage that's been driving me nuts is in a (Hong Kong) show where two characters have a conversation that's essentially like:

A: "Ah, so that's why you killed my father. I understand now."
B: "You mean you don't want to get revenge against me?"
A: [sincere, or at least faking it very convincingly] "I did before, but now that you've explained it, I don't."
B: [genuine praise] "You're a very understanding young man."
A: [declining the praise in a polite/friendly way] "No, it's just that I 得罪不起你."

If this is the same usage, then it means "I just can't afford to offend you," but... that seems like totally the wrong meaning when he's trying to convey that sincerely doesn't want revenge anymore, not that he still wants revenge but just can't afford to get on the other guy's bad side, or lose their social connection by admitting he's still angry or whatever. I feel like either "afford" means something rather different from the English usage here, or there's some other meaning of 不起 that I'm missing. (But what? I can't think of any other translation that seems to fit the context, either! :P)

[trobadora]

It made intuitive sense to me with 对不起 when I saw it on wiktionary, but then I read your comment and got all confused again, LOL.

In your example, I totally agree that "can't afford to" in English would have a very different vibe from what you're describing and what the scene conveys!

Thinking about it, yeah, I think it's a figurative sense of "afford", like you suggested in the exchange with nnozomi above. Maybe something like "can't bear the consequences of" and from there to "can't bear to", which as you say does fit 对不起? Does that make any sense to you?

[grayswandir]

It made intuitive sense to me with 对不起 when I saw it on wiktionary, but then I read your comment and got all confused again, LOL.

Sorry! XD

Maybe something like "can't bear the consequences of" and from there to "can't bear to", which as you say does fit 对不起? Does that make any sense to you?

Hmm, maybe? It makes more sense than anything I've come up with so far! And I could imagine that as a natural progression of meaning, with the end result having sort of lost the part about consequences. I'll keep that in mind and see if it fits the next time I run into a 不起.

[nnozomi]

Same! You would think that a language with so many characters wouldn't use the same ones to convey so many different meanings! (I'm still working out whether 得起/不起 can sometimes indicate "afford to" in the metaphorical sense as well as the financial one...).

[grayswandir]

(I'm still working out whether 得起/不起 can sometimes indicate "afford to" in the metaphorical sense as well as the financial one...)

Huh, now that you put it like that, I wonder if that's where I'm getting confused, because I feel like it is used in a metaphorical sense, but it doesn't seem to be quite the same metaphorical sense we use "afford" for in English, and I've yet to grasp exactly what the metaphorical sense means in Chinese...

[nnozomi]

but it doesn't seem to be quite the same metaphorical sense we use "afford" for in English, and I've yet to grasp exactly what the metaphorical sense means in Chinese...
You said it, unfortunately...