第四十八天

[nnozomi]

很, used to connect nouns and adjectives (except when it means "very")
https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Simple_%22noun_%2B_adjective%22_sentences

Guardian:
副处活很久吗？他，他看起来很年轻啊。 (Yes, he's actually a ten-thousand-year-old cat)
地星人异能的觉醒有的很迟，有的很早，像这些普通的老百姓基本上都没有发现自己的异能。(some Dixingren's powers awaken late, some early, but basically most of these ordinary people haven't realized their own powers.) (not sure about 发现 in the latter clause, but 很 plus a use of 老百姓 as brought up previously.)
我很好奇你的梦会是什么样子的呢, 我亲爱的...哥哥。(I'm curious about what your dreams look like, dearest gege.)

My practice:
林静很高，可能是我到现在看过的节目人物之中最高的。
付款税金真的很麻烦，怎么这么难啊。
看起来很累，你没事吧？

(out and about from early today, comment responses later on sorry...)

Comments

[grayswandir]

This is another one that always confuses me a bit, because (at least with the equivalent Cantonese term, 好, which is what I'm familiar with -- but I assume also with Mandarin 很), sometimes it seems like it really does mean "very." At least, I sometimes see native Chinese speakers translate their own sentences into English and use "very" in the translation, even though according to grammar rules like on CGW, the 很/好 should just be a link and not really mean anything. Like, it seems like when someone wants to say something like "it's very easy," they'll use 很容易 rather than e.g. 非常容易 (which at least to me seems kind of extra intense, like "extremely easy"?). I really don't know, and it might be that I'm entirely wrong, but I always feel like the 很 (or 好) isn't totally non-intensifying.

(Also, I don't know about Mandarin, but I know in Canto if you don't want to say that something is "很/好 [adj.]," it's very common to link the noun to the adjective with other modifying words like "somewhat" or "a bit" or "relatively" or "very slightly" (or "extremely," etc.). Which also suggests to me that the linking word really is expressing the degree of the adjective, at least grammatically, even if "very" is too strong a translation 很 a lot of the time...)

I was looking into it just now to see if I could find more information, and ran across this, which isn't necessarily actually helpful, but I did find it interesting: https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=19478

The comments at the bottom are interesting too. The first one seems to make a lot of sense to me:

[...]I think one possibility is that 很 is only necessary for scalar adjectives, and its presence turns them into proper stative verbs. Basically 好 or 高 each denote a scale and a direction, but only 很好 or 很高 specify (vaguely) a point along that scale and are thus actual predications with truth-conditional meaning over nouns.

And the last comment says there was a paper published about this question a few years ago, but the link to the paper seems to be broken. :/

[trobadora]

sometimes it seems like it really does mean "very."

Yeah, this! I was looking for SHL quotes just now, and I kept asking myself, "but does it really not mean 'very' here?" And then I threw up my hands and gave up. /o\

[nnozomi]

"but does it really not mean 'very' here?" And then I threw up my hands and gave up. /o\
Too right! you could really say the same about any of the Guardian quotes I chose, lol.

[nnozomi]

Thank you for the language-log quote--I'm going to come back to it when my brain is working better.
Which also suggests to me that the linking word really is expressing the degree of the adjective, at least grammatically, even if "very" is too strong a translation 很 a lot of the time...)
Yeah, this works for me--I'm trying to think of it as a sliding scale from null to very?
(I think 好 also gets used the same way in Mandarin sometimes, right? I didn't know it was from Cantonese (not surprising, what do I know about Cantonese). 好累，好难 and so on...)

[grayswandir]

I'm trying to think of it as a sliding scale from null to very?

Yeah, that's kind of the impression I get. On that language-log page, a couple of people in the comments noted that the English word "very" is often mostly meaningless too (as in "there isn't much left" vs. "there isn't very much left" or "she's doing well" vs. "she's doing very well"), which I thought was a good point. Sometimes intensifiers just... aren't actually very intense. XD

Another commenter says that 很 uses the neutral tone when it's just a linking word, and is stressed with full tone when it actually means "very" -- I have no idea if this is true (I still don't know anything about Mandarin pronunciation, and Canto doesn't have a neutral tone), but it seems like it would make sense...

I think 好 also gets used the same way in Mandarin sometimes, right?

Yeah, apparently so! I didn't know about it before, and didn't mention it in my comment because I wasn't sure if it was common or not (Wiktionary calls it "mostly dialectical"). But apparently it's also used in some varieties of Hakka and Min Nan, so I don't know if it actually originated from Canto or if maybe it's an older usage that some dialects retained and others dropped?

[nnozomi]

Sometimes intensifiers just... aren't actually very intense. XD
Yes, good point! (Staying far away from the tone discussion because my ability either to hear or to pronounce tones is so terrible, oh dear.)

so I don't know if 好～ actually originated from Canto or if maybe it's an older usage that some dialects retained and others dropped?
The study of how dialects/languages in China have affected one another is probably, like, a full-scale independent field of study all by itself, oh dear. Sounds like a lot of fun to look into, though. (Unrelatedly, because you know I'm obsessed anyway, there's a video somewhere of Zhu Yilong recording the LTR title song and breaking off in the middle to groan 好难呀, very cute.)

[grayswandir]

my ability either to hear or to pronounce tones is so terrible

I'm right there with you. XD

there's a video somewhere of Zhu Yilong recording the LTR title song and breaking off in the middle to groan 好难呀, very cute

That sounds adorable. If you run across the video again, I'd love a link in one of your 第七天 posts!

[nnozomi]

I'm right there with you. XD
You've managed to cope with too-many-tones Cantonese, you must be doing something right!

If you run across the video again, I'd love a link in one of your 第七天 posts!
Twist my arm, lol ;) Will do.

[sakana17]

Oof, this takes me back to when I took Mandarin for 2 years in college eons ago, and I couldn't shake the impulse to translate it as "very." ;__;

Another one from episode 7 of The Rebel, Lan Xinjie to Chen Moqun (re: Lin Nansheng): 他很好 很真诚

[nnozomi]

他很好 很真诚
<3 <3 <3

[elenothar]

(except when it means "very")

Oh man, duolingo drove me batty with this, because they seemed to use it interchangeably and I could never figure out which was meant. Then again, duolingo doesn't seem great in nuance generally where Mandarin is concerned.

[nnozomi]

I enjoy Duolingo for really straightforward repetitive practice, but their usage doesn't always accord with what people actually seem to say in dramas etc. ...

[presumenothing]

……………somewhere in this universe there is a graph of "Existential Crises I Have Had About This Language, Over Time" and it exponentially goes off-chart after joining this comm.

Anyway! I'm in concurrence with grayswandir that the linking and degree functions often coexist, but also that "very", while a workable and not-incorrect translation, may overstate said degree relative to 很.

Not sure what else to add here (because this is yet another one we never actually learnt as A Specific Grammar Point) except to also note that despite the wiki drawing a dichotomy between 是 and 很, the latter is absolutely not unique imo – 非常、真、有点、超、不、挺… etc all can glue noun and adjective together too, though obviously with different meanings.

[nnozomi]

somewhere in this universe there is a graph of "Existential Crises I Have Had About This Language, Over Time" and it exponentially goes off-chart after joining this comm
We aim to please. ;) (I spent more time thinking about the structure of English when I was teaching ESL than ever before or after, and ended up with a lot of "just don't ask me WHY it's that way" answers...)

the linking and degree functions often coexist, but also that "very", while a workable and not-incorrect translation, may overstate said degree relative to 很.
Works for me. I'm trying to think of it as a sliding scale from null to very, as it were, depending on context...doesn't everything...