第二十九天

[nnozomi]

了 to show that an action is complete

https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Expressing_completion_with_%22le%22

Guardian:
猫说话了 (the cat spoke)
沈教授，结婚了吗 (Professor Shen, are you married?)
我已经答应了 (I've already given you my word)

My practice:
你太迟到了，我已经吃完了。
我们终于找到了解决。
她上周去了东京。

Comments

[trobadora]

Haha, this is fascinating and even more confusing, and whoever came up with it should applaud themselves for that achievement ...

Which, incidentally, what even are these anyway, the "simplified" one has MORE STROKES, 12 versus the traditional character with 11???

Maybe I'm miscounting somewhere, but I'm counting 11 strokes for both?

And an aside: It looks like the meaning "famous" is pronounced as zhù in Mandarin and wasn't included in the pop-up list? So I think Mandarin actually has five pronunciations?

The reason it's not included is that it's the pop-up for the simplified character, and apparently Mandarin uses the traditional one for that meanding ... Now my head hurts, LOL.

[grayswandir]

I'm counting 11 strokes for both?

Oh no, it gets even more confusing. XD From Wiktionary:

着 - "12 strokes in traditional Chinese, Japanese and Korean, 11 strokes in mainland China"

著 - "12 strokes in traditional Chinese, 11 strokes in mainland China and Japanese, 13 strokes in Korean"

Either way, though, it's hardly simplified...

apparently Mandarin uses the traditional one

OH NO. XD

[presumenothing]

I can answer the first one at least! The difference is due to the downwards long stroke being one continuous 丿 in simplified as below:

And yes, confirming the use of 著 for the "famous" meaning LOL. Another thing I hadn't even noticed until now because it's taught completely separate from 着.

ETA: WAIT no I figured out the 著 one too, just remembered the 草字头 (grass radical?) is written split up in trad hence the extra stroke:

…but not in Japanese. And who only knows what Korean is doing. Also for general reference, "[word] 笔画" (or 筆劃, if you're specifically looking for traditional) is the handy search for stroke order stuff.

[grayswandir]

This is great, thank you!

And yes, confirming the use of 著 for the "famous" meaning LOL.

Well, at least I'm used to that one! But this does make it feel like these should really just be regarded as separate characters and not a traditional/simplified pair. :P

"[word] 笔画" (or 筆劃, if you're specifically looking for traditional) is the handy search for stroke order stuff.

Thank you! I didn't know, and will definitely make use of this.

[presumenothing]

not a traditional/simplified pair

ancestors: We did it! We've simplified the word!
us: You've made it more confusing is what you did! Look at it! It has anxiety. And an identity crisis!

Though to be fair any simplified dictionary would list them separately while trad ones would list them together, so Wiktionary conflating them is a bad example in this case.

And yeah it just occurred to me that it's not immediately obvious what the search term would be – unnoticed benefits of having learnt Chinese in Chinese lol. Maybe I should make a mini-list of "useful search tips" at some point… though that would require me to actually notice stuff like this first………

[grayswandir]

Yeah, I just think they need separate listings, I don't mean to deny the historical connection! But you're right, that's probably just a Wiktionary problem. (I've always used Wiktionary because it has more information about other dialects of Chinese and not just Mandarin, but the choice to treat all simplified characters as variants that merely link back to the traditional form is annoying even to me.)

Maybe I should make a mini-list of "useful search tips" at some point

This is maybe not quite on the same topic, but I'd love to know what the search term is for "fanfiction" in Chinese....

[presumenothing]

but the choice to treat all simplified characters as variants that merely link back to the traditional form is annoying even to me.

Yeah, especially since it can backfire sometimes (as in this case), even though I don't mind it most of the time…

I'd love to know what the search term is for "fanfiction" in Chinese....

同人小说/同人文, though you also see it abbreviated to 同人! Which I'm pretty sure is an adoption of "doujin" from Japanese, though I don't quite know whether it also applies to other non-fic fanwork or not.

[trobadora]

remembered the 草字头 (grass radical?) is written split up in trad

THANK YOU, that was bugging me, I couldn't figure out where I was going wrong with the stroke count!

[presumenothing]

I've never really noticed the difference in that stroke (or more probably, just dismissed it as a font thing) so it was a baffling mystery to me too XD

[trobadora]

*cries*