第四十天

[nnozomi]

是...的 for asking WH questions in the past tense (I think)
https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/The_%22shi..._de%22_construction_for_emphasizing_details

Guardian:
你觉得她是怎么死的？ (a little graphic for first thing in the morning, but it's a perfect example...)
你是怎么知道的？(how did you know, how did you find out?)
说说吧，那些伤都是谁弄的？(also a little colorful...)

My practice:
这个汤是谁做的？很好吃。
你昨天是在哪里去的？
我们当时没知道，是怎么做好的？

Comments

[sakana17]

I think this is one (from The Rebel, episode 24):
查到是谁打的了吗

[nnozomi]

I think so too! In an embedded question, no less. (Rebel quotes much appreciated! I should try to find more myself.)

[elenothar]

I just went through that wiki entry and my brain is buzzing. Let's see if I retain all of that...

[nnozomi]

I know. The best I can do is "it's that..." for the statements (there's a Japanese construction which makes it easier to remember) and "use 是...的, not 了吗, for past WH questions," but I'm not at all sure that's either accurate or complete.

[presumenothing]

Okay let me just… write down my thoughts while I attempt to parse this, bearing in mind this isn't exhaustive because I haven't finished my coffee yet, and also I don't think we were ever specifically taught this in class?

• Is it past tense: generally, yes? Probably. I would also use 是 for emphasis in future questions, say 你明天是穿这件衣服去吗? where 是 isn't grammatically necessary but adds the specific emphasis (are you wearing this outfit tomorrow, and not another one?). But that doesn't come with 的 so is that the same construction. IDK.
• Why no 了 here?? 了 is… more for asking about the state of things/actions, rather than the details? I'd expect any question it appears it to be a yes-or-no one. Speculation: I also suspect 是 for emphasis doesn't crop up in 了 questions as much because it's kinda duh what it's asking about. But 是猜的，也不确定真的是这样的吗。
• “Other than that, 是 is commonly omitted.” Well yeah words expensive LOL 一字千金
• I'd point out that 不是的 is also a valid answer in itself if it's clear what is being 不是-ed. (不是这样的！你别信他的话！ vehemently protests our hypothetical drama character)
• There's definitely some semantic similarity to Japanese は (i.e. as in に vs には, same technical meaning but with italic emphasis on the second) but… the order is different? I think?
• The fact that I've now been made uncomfortably aware that 是 precedes the topic being emphasised… language, why. Why does moving 的 one place forward change the meaning. Like I know it does but 为什么要这么折磨人呢

[nnozomi]

Thank you! This is super helpful to refer to.
了 is… more for asking about the state of things/actions, rather than the details? I'd expect any question it appears it to be a yes-or-no one.
了 is still very much a work-in-progress in my head, and I'll come back to this when (hopefully) I have more understanding, but it's helpful.

There's definitely some semantic similarity to Japanese は (i.e. as in に vs には, same technical meaning but with italic emphasis on the second) but… the order is different? I think?
I think of 是。。。的 in terms of Japanese (similarity of usage rather than of grammar) as something like のです、のだ, you know? adding specificness/emphasis to the copula? /have forgotten all my grammar terms. Not so much in the question form, but, like, 是你告诉他的，彼に教えたのはおまえだったのだ. (wow, if 一字千金, Japanese is way more expensive than Chinese)

The fact that I've now been made uncomfortably aware that 是 precedes the topic being emphasised… language, why.
Mm, in English this can work the same way, right? As in the above (yet another line from our drama, probably), "it was you who told him," where the verb also comes first.

[presumenothing]

A less-explanatory のだ, heh, but I see what you mean!

(wow, if 一字千金, Japanese is way more expensive than Chinese)

XD

Especially compared against keigo… though to be fair Chinese also has its fair share of formal pleasantries and whatnot that take up word count.

I'm the kind of person who would say "You were the one who told him!!", so XD what is sentence order anyway.