第三十四天

[nnozomi]

多少 for "how many" with numbers (usually) larger than 几
https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Measure_words_in_quantity_questions
(same page as yesterday, further down)
Like 几 it can also mean "some amount of" in non-questions.

Guardian:
他留了多少级了？ how many grades did he repeat? (not very respectful about a corpse, Zhao Yunlan)
多少钱呀？ how much is it?
你听到了多少？ how much did you hear? (Shen Wei after his meeting with Zhao Xinci)

My practice:
你的电话号码多少？ (If correct, it tickles me that you ask "how much is your phone number" instead of "what is your phone number."
他买了多少玫瑰？怎么回事，会求婚呢？

Comments

[trobadora]

I will admit I don't quite understand the difference between what that wiki page says about 多少 with a classifier vs. other uses of 多少 without a classifier, like 多少钱 ... *scratches head*

If correct, it tickles me that you ask "how much is your phone number" instead of "what is your phone number."

Oh, that is neat!

[grayswandir]

I can't seem to find anything on the wiki about uses without classifiers, but I assume you just use classifiers with countable nouns/usages, and no classifier for non-count usages, the same way English uses "how many" for count nouns and "how much" for non-count nouns. "How many cups of water?" vs. "How much water?" Unless there's something else to this that I'm missing?

[grayswandir]

it tickles me that you ask "how much is your phone number" instead of "what is your phone number."

Yes! Wiktionary has a "usage notes" section about this, which says the same format is even used for email addresses, too:

你的电子邮件是多少？ [MSC, simp.]
Nǐ de diànzǐ yóujiàn shì duōshǎo? [Pinyin]
What is your email address? (literally, How many/much is your email address?)

[trobadora]

I was skipping through the Guardian and SHL subtitles, and a lot of instances of 多少 were 多少人, and that was when I decided I didn't understand enough. Maybe I'm missing something really obvious here ...

[grayswandir]

Ah. Now that I think about it, you're right, I've definitely heard usages like this and have just never thought about when you need a classifier and when you don't, or why!

I tried to do a search just now, but was having trouble figuring out what search terms to use -- the best thing I got was someone asking a question on Stack Exchange. Here's their question:

I was studying Chinese grammar from a textbook. Somewhere in the book, it explains the difference between 几 and 多少. The book says that 几 needs a classifier. But using a classifier with 多少 is optional. It also gives some examples, like 多少（张）照片，多少（个）朋友，多少（个）系 But when it reaches 人, it writes: 多少人 not 多少（个）人

I wonder if 多少个人 is incorrect or obsolete?

They got three replies which all seem to confirm that 多少个人 is equally correct (but maybe more stilted). So I guess classifiers are... purely optional, with 多少?

[trobadora]

Thank you for finding that link, that's very helpful!

[yaaurens]

你的电话号码多少
Probably just a typo, but you're missing a verb here, at least from my experience. 你的电话号码是多少?

My brain can't think of any examples that aren't just riffs on what's already been used! *chants* come on brain, think of things, come on brain, be so smart*

[presumenothing]

I concur – 多少个人 isn't incorrect, but the 个 just isn't necessary/sounds stiff there. I don't know that this is strictly generalisable to all cases, though (of the above examples, 照片 and 朋友 both sound more natural to me with the counter attached, while I… can't actually imagine why you'd need to count 系).

On the other hand, to point out the possibly-obvious, you do need to include the counter if you're dropping the noun itself ("你等下可以帮忙买些苹果吗？" "好啊，要买几个/多少个？").

[grayswandir]

Thank you, this is helpful! (Including the last bit; I actually wouldn't have known you need the counter if you drop the noun. The equivalent Canto term doesn't! :P )

照片 and 朋友 both sound more natural to me with the counter attached

Hah, all right, so this probably just needs to be absorbed from a lot of listening...

[nnozomi]

you're missing a verb here, at least from my experience. 你的电话号码是多少?
You're right! 谢谢啊。 your brain is plenty smart...

[nnozomi]

How much is your email address! Love it. Nice find.

[nnozomi]

this probably just needs to be absorbed from a lot of listening...
doesn't everything, sigh, oh dear... (despairing but hopeful)

[nnozomi]

照片 and 朋友 both sound more natural to me with the counter attached, ... On the other hand, to point out the possibly-obvious, you do need to include the counter if you're dropping the noun itself
谢谢！ Very useful to know.

("你等下可以帮忙买些苹果吗？" "好啊，要买几个/多少个？").
and thus Wang Xiangyang's troubles began... /gratuitous Guardian reference

[nnozomi]

Thank you for bringing up this point and associated discussion!
(For me also 人 almost feels like a counter/classifier in itself, therefore not needing 个, except of course it's 一个人 and not 一人... oh dear.)

[presumenothing]

I actually wouldn't have known you need the counter if you drop the noun. The equivalent Canto term doesn't!

Haha, I hadn't even realised until I actually thought about it, but 多少？ without any counter is automatically 多少钱？ i.e. price LOL. Priorities.

And oh is the Canto equivalent 几多?

(Also I just skimmed through it briefly but this answer looks promising re: when to include the counter.)

[grayswandir]

Hah, well, to be fair, English isn't that different... if someone just says "How much?" without any other context, I definitely assume they mean money, even though though could be talking about how much sugar to add to the cookie dough or whatever...

And oh is the Canto equivalent 几多?

It is!

this answer looks promising

That answer does look helpful! My intuitive guess was that leaving the classifier off would make the meaning seem more abstract or refer to very large numbers (which might feel more like a matter of "how much" rather than "how many individual units"), but that was just a hunch, so I'm glad to see a clearer explanation of it. And I always forget about the fact that words like 年 are considered measure words in themselves, and can't have classifiers in front of them. It confuses me particularly because, like, 一年 but 一个月 (I mean, I get that without the classifier it would just say "January," but it's still confusing that months get classifiers but years don't...)

[presumenothing]

一年 but 一个月

brb existential crisis